The 2021 S R Nathan Distinguished Lecture is organised by Middle East Institute (NUS), in collaboration with the Embassy of the United Arab Emirates (Singapore).

The aim of the S R Nathan Distinguished Lecture is to provide greater awareness and understanding of the modern Middle East. This lecture provides a forum for statesmen, internationally prominent scholars and public intellectuals to express their views on key issues. The lecture series is named in honour of Singapore’s late former president, Mr S R Nathan, who encouraged a deeper understanding of the Middle East region in Singapore.

Abstract

His Excellency Omar Saif Ghobash will look at the latest developments in the UAE’s foreign policy, in a changing global economy as well as the economic imperatives that it is addressing as a nation. The UAE implemented policies and initiatives to maximise its efforts and resources to gain internal growth and prosperity. It must be noted that the country has a growing young population and the government has geared up to provide the best possible infrastructure for them and the rest of the population to prosper. Youth empowerment plays a vital role in enabling the younger generation to shoulder responsibilities, innovate and contribute to the welfare of the UAE’s community. In June 2019, the UAE cabinet decided that it was mandatory to include young Emiratis in the boards of directors of government entities, institutions and companies. Following that, in February 2020, the government approved 33 young Emiratis as members of the boards of directors for key federal entities.

In today’s context, foreign policy is directly connected to a country’s internal affairs. Therefore, it is essential to explain the internal dynamics of the UAE society,  the nation’s politics and its economics. These components allow for a comprehensive understanding of the choices made by Emirati policymakers and trends of the UAE’s foreign policy. The lecture also aims to provide answers to questions about the practices of the Emirates’ foreign policy in the Middle East.

Mr K Shanmugam, Minister for Home Affairs and Minister for Law will be giving an opening speech.

This public lecture will be conducted online via Zoom on Wednesday, 27 October 2021, from  4.00pm to 5.30pm (SGT). All are welcome to participate. This event is free, however, registration is compulsory. Successful registrants will receive a confirmation email with the Zoom details closer to the date of the event.

For the event programme, you may click here.

Listen to the full event here: 

Watch the full event here:

Edited Transcript of the S R Nathan Lecture 2021:

The event began with MEI (NUS) Chairman Mr Bilahari Kausikan inviting Singapore’s Minister for Home Affairs and Law, Mr K. Shanmugam, to deliver opening remarks.

[Mr Shanmugam]: A very good afternoon to all of you. It is a privilege to be here today for the S R Nathan Distinguished Lecture organised by MEI (NUS). Our distinguished speaker today is His Excellency Omar Saif Ghobash who currently serves as the Assistant Minister for Cultural Affairs for the UAE. Previously, he was Ambassador to France (2017-2018) as well as Ambassador to Russia (2008-2017). His Excellency is also the author of a very interesting book, Letters to a Young Muslim. It has been very favourably received and reviewed and it addresses some of the key questions that many young Muslims ask – it is a question of how Muslims can find a voice that is true to Islam, while actively engaging in the modern world.

I am standing between you and his remarks. I have been asked to say a few things to set the context as it were. My remarks will be relatively brief. I will touch on three areas which are quite important to us: one, the current developments in the Middle East; two, the links between the Middle East and Southeast Asia; and three, the implications for the Southeast Asia region.

People who have been observing the region will notice that it is undergoing a key transformation in the economic, socio-cultural as well as geopolitical fields.

On the economic front, countries in the Middle East are dealing with two major issues: oil prices as well as demographics. There has been a spike up in oil prices in recent days. But, in general, the forecast for the price of oil is something like US$55 per barrel in 2023 and beyond. That is below the fiscal break-even price for many oil-producing countries and that can be a big challenge for some of the countries in the Gulf.

Second, on demographics. Countries in the Gulf Cooperation Council have one of the fastest growing youngest populations anywhere in the world. However, many of those young people are also facing difficulty in finding employment. So, when you have a combination of a young population, large numbers of young people and high youth unemployment – that brings a set of unique challenges and will have to be managed very carefully. So, the questions are – and there are many – how will the countries transform their economies to reduce the dependency on oil and gas and also deal with the rising expectations of a young population?

If you turn to the socio-cultural sector, changes are also being made at that level. The UAE for example, has announced some significant moves in the context of how Islam has been practised in the Middle East and in many other places in world. Just last year the UAE announced a law to allow unmarried couples to cohabitate and it also loosened alcohol restrictions. It will be both important and interesting to see how these changes interplay with various other dynamics in the respective societies. Other dynamics including the practice of Islam and some sections of the societies, the clerics and various factors.

At the same time, it seems likely that religion will continue to play a major role in the region. From The Arab Youth Survey in 2020, it shows that 40% of young Arabs regard religion as the most important aspect of their personal identity – ahead of family, nationality and gender. Others in the region, including Iran and Turkey, are also likely to rely on religion in reinforcing their own legitimacy.

If you come to the geopolitical aspect, Middle East countries have traditionally depended on the US for defence-related issues but they are also deepening their economic links with China. So, in addition to managing regional tensions and the ambitions of different regional actors, Middle East countries will now also have to navigate the US- China relationship carefully.

The second point I wanted to make – in Southeast Asia, we are watching these developments in the Middle East very closely. Southeast Asia has deep economic ties with the Middle East region. For Singapore, bilateral trade with Middle Eastern countries was nearly S$60 billion in 2019 and growing at a compound annual growth rate of 4.2% over the last five years.

Across the region, it is a positive picture of strong growth in trade and economic links. But the role of the Middle East and its impact on Southeast Asia goes beyond trade and economic links. Both regions are linked on the track of common religious identities and consciousness. Southeast Asia is home to close to 300 million practising Muslims. Many Muslims across the world see the Middle East as the seat of Islam and a point of reference on religious matters. The cultural and religious interactions between the Middle East and Southeast Asia are extensive and goes back centuries but these close links also mean what happens in the Middle East can have a powerful effect and impact in this region. For example, the conflicts in the Middle East have led some people in this region to make their way to Middle East and join extremist groups. They receive training and are further radicalised and pose a threat to regional security in this region when they return to back to Southeast Asia.

In this context, His Excellency’s book Letters to a Young Muslim is especially instructive. His Excellency wrote the book for his then-teenage sons, to help them navigate the complexities of the modern world and insulate them from the draws of radicalism. I quote a passage from the book:
″I want my son′s generation of Muslims to realise that they have the right to think and decide what is right and what is wrong, what is Islamic and what is peripheral to the faith.” The book’s core message, to keep an open and critical mind to meet the challenges of the 21st century, is extremely important and encouraging to us and something which I hope people in this region – both Muslims and non-Muslims – will understand.

As the Middle East continues to deal with challenges and changes its making, one key question is the direction in which Islam in Southeast Asia will move. Should there be tensions in the Middle East, that can also influence this region. There are many questions, fewer certainties and a very dynamic situation.

In conclusion, we can ask many questions and these are the questions that we have the opportunity to engage in, in this S R Nathan Distinguished Lecture.

I hope all of you will have a rewarding experience and I look forward to the speech by His Excellency. Thank you.

After Mr Shanmugam’s opening speech concluded, Mr Kausikan opened the floor to questions from the audience to commence the question-and-answer session with minster.

[Mr Kausikan]: Minister, you made reference to our guest’s excellent book and that book, of course, focuses on issues facing Muslims in particular. However, when I read the book, it occurred to me that its broader message has a wider relevance to all faiths, especially in an age as we live in, where identities of all kinds are being very insistently asserted, one more authentic than the other and so on. Would you agree with that?  If you do agree, or even if you don’t agree, could you tell us why and how is this relevant in the Singapore context?

[Mr Shanmugam]: I think it’s particularly relevant to us. First of all, I agree with the points that His Excellency makes, which you have put out. You know, this is an era of atomisation of identity. We are going into smaller and smaller identities, helped by online sources and the internet.

In this region, as well as in many other regions –but particularly in this region – people are still very religious. Christianity is very strong in Singapore and Islam as well. In fact, over 80% of our population, people say that they practice some faith and they are religious. If you look at that – how faith can interact with modernity, how do we both deal with the modern world and yet keep your faith – these are fundamental questions and you don’t often get very illuminating answers.

So, my view is that – this is a book that people of many different faiths can take a good deal away from, to help answer some of the questions that inevitably arise as our identities get questioned.

[Mr Kausikan]: Thank you, Minister. We have got one more question. It refers to your opening remarks and my first question. The question is as follows — we have seen in recent years, the emergence of far right, evangelical Christian movements that take cue from the US, with two particularly worrying instances occurring this year – a plot to attack two mosques here and a group promoting the use of ivermectin to treat Covid-19. Since the 9/11 attcks, we have involved the Muslim community to tackle Islamic extremism. Is the same model, or the same playbook, still applicable in this day and age to other faiths?

[Mr Shanmugam]: I have repeatedly said that it is wrong to couple the idea of radicalisation and extremism to any particular religion. I’ve made that point repeatedly.  Just look at this region. You have countries where Buddhists are attacking Muslims, Muslims attacking non-Muslims, instances of Christians attacking Muslims, situations of Hindus attacking Muslims too and vice versa. So, to try and say this religion, radicalism, I think it is both inaccurate and we fall into an error that some people make, particularly in the media. So, we need to get away from that.

We need to recognise that in every religion, there are people who will misuse it, abuse it and use it to attack people of other faiths – sometimes for political reasons, sometimes for others but it’s usually got a nexus which has got very little to do with faith and religion. The model that we use depends on the religion and depends on the extent of the issue. If you speak specifically about Singapore, so far, the number of instances where either there has been a far-right planned attack or Christians seeking to attack any other places of worship, we have picked up one case. One boy. And we have taken a leaf out of the model we used for the extremists from the Muslim faith that we picked up after the 9/11 attacks. We use local clerics because they have credibility as the government doesn’t have credibility to go and tell people what the religion is about. From the ground up, people came forward – clerics – they went to talk to the people who had been radicalised and what Islam is really about.  Many of them have become de-radicalised after a period of detention and after receiving instruction on Islam. Likewise, we have pastors working with this young man whom we picked up. So, we took a leaf from there but so far, it’s one case.

[Mr Kausikan]: Thank you. I think we have time for one more question for Minister Shanmugam and then we’ll move over to our guest. Well, there are several questions for you, minister but I’ll choose one that you can probably answer as swiftly as possible.  Is the decision to allow Muslim women to wear the tudung as part of their uniforms — nurses, I believe — made as a precautionary measure or is that merely a recognition of the times we are in where people are quicker to assert their identity as you have pointed out?

[Mr Shanmugam]: I don’t think the decision on tudung for nurses has got something specific to what I was talking about people asserting their identity. I wouldn’t consider the Muslim women’s desire to wear the tudung as falling within the category of assertion of identity that you and I referred to a bit earlier.

There is a legitimate request; sense of religiosity. Women feel that they would like to wear the tudung and in large areas in Singapore, there are no restrictions whether in the government or  private sector. In some areas where a uniform is required, there have been some restrictions but where it is possible to make a move, we do so bearing in mind that if an exception is made for one religion, then others can make similar requests also.

So, we have said uniform groups – the police, army and so on, it’s difficult to make an exception but for the nursing field, after a great deal of consideration and discussion with the community and religious leaders, the view was that the move can be made – I will put it that way.

[Mr Kausikan]: Thank you, minister.

After Mr Shanmugam concluded his speech and question-and-answer session, Mr Kausikan welcomed His Excellency Omar Saif Ghobash, the UAE’s Assistant Minister for Cultural Affairs, to deliver his speech and speak about his book.

[HE Omar Saif Ghobash]: Thank you very much and to be honest, I’m really humbled that you found so much in my book that was of value – I’m really very touched. I also have to be honest — wherever I go in the world, I go to the bookshop and loiter near the religion section to check if the book is still there. There was a copy when I was in L.A. recently, so I very humbly took it out and took a selfie – it means a lot to me.

Firstly, I’d like to thank you all for having given me this opportunity to speak about the UAE in such a prestigious forum. I’ve been working in our foreign ministry on and off since the age of 22 — this means that I’ve had the pleasure of seeing our foreign policy changing in significant ways from the early 1990s. It has also given me time to think about what we were trying to achieve in previous iterations of policy and what we are aiming to achieve with the new changes in our foreign policy. I also plan to be quite brief in my comments in anticipation of your questions.

It’s tempting to look back at two events in particular — the 9/11 attacks as well as the Arab Spring — as starting points even though they are 10 years apart, for a discussion on foreign policy.
In fact, I think you should know where we were even further back to the early 1990s, when I first stepped into the UAE’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Unfortunately, at that time, I was young, idealistic, impatient and naïve. Now, almost 30 years later, I would like to think of myself as mature, wise, reasonable – if not jaded – and of course, still young.

At that time –it was just after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait – and there definitely was a change in Gulf-Arab understanding of the relationship between the monarchies and the republics of the Arab world. The sense of cautious trust gave way to outright shock at the stand that the republicans of the Arab world took against Kuwait and by implication, against the rest of the Gulf states. If this understanding didn’t translate immediately into a change of foreign policy, then it simmered under the surface and it is probably one of the key factors that informs today’s Gulf views of the rest of the Arab world – the realisation that certain Arab populations celebrated the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait underlined for us that perhaps, Arab solidarity was not as straightforward as making public statements at the Arab League.  I see this as one of the early triggers for a greater sense of self-interest, agency and sovereignty. We would traditionally define ourselves as parties to the Palestinian, Arab and Muslim causes but we now began to think a little more vocally in opposition to what these affinities seem to demand of us in terms of national sacrifice — people and policymakers began to think in terms of what was good for us at home within our national boundaries. Then, the terrible events of the 9/11 attacks took place and suddenly, we were thrown back into the Arab-Muslim cauldron. All Arabs looked like the guilty party; Western states began to demand changes in educational and financial systems of the region in order to put a stop to the possibility of terrorist financing as well as extremist indoctrination – tremendous pressure was put on Arab states to reform their systems.

We began to wonder whether the problem was that of an image; the image of the Arabs and Islam or whether there was a deeper set of real problems that existed beyond or beneath the issue of image. In the Emirates, we began to take steps to align ourselves with the kind of values we believe represented us best and quietly, we joined the allied military action in Afghanistan. Initially, we did not want to trumpet our involvement but we wanted to make clear that we stood against extremism – whether Islamic or Arab or others – and that we would take concrete, tangible and in this case, expensive steps to demonstrate this position. Alongside this involvement, our prime minister – the ruler of Dubai – made a remarkable pressing statement in the late 2000s when he said that Arab leaders must think carefully about how their youthful population’s aspirations would be satisfied and he worked with the other leaders of the UAE, developing a robust and agile government sector to serve local and foreign residents and investors. Many of you will know about the various projects the UAE has launched – from transformative real estate laws and projects to digitisation and streamlining of government services, the expansion of ports, airports and airlines as well as the establishment of financial centres that aim to service the globe rather than just a regional constituency.

These initiatives coincided with the Arab Spring where the young populations of the Arab world brought down the leaders of a number of countries. This was followed by the rise of Al Qaida in Iraq and then ISIS in Syria. The virulent strains of political Islam and extremist ideologies of incredible violence threatened the minds of our children and this is where I got personally involved — some of you may know now it’s clear that I was so worried about this issue that I wrote a book on it, directed to young Muslims. The result of these events and movements was that we, as the UAE, began to take a more hands-on approach to the ideological battles taking place in our region, bad ideas spread across borders with ease. We certainly took action when it looked like others were going to decide our fate. In many ways, we began to see that other powerful states – in the region and afield – were somewhat cavalier about what was going on so we needed to be more proactive in our approach. We knew – and we continued to know – the neighbourhood and the key actors. We also understand the real motivations of extremists and political Islamists so we began to engage with these broad issues in a practical manner in order to stop the Arab world falling into the hands of people we know harbour extremist, exclusivist and intolerant ideologies. We wanted to make sure that they would not acquire the resources of states, whether natural or human. This required a lot of lobbying with Western and non-Western states as well as co-ordination with friendly powers in the region. We demonstrated to big players in the region that we would not go quietly into the night – we believe that this message has been received and we look forward to a new era in our relations with such states. The charm of political Islam has waned as populations begin to evaluate the cost of these experiments. The reality is dawning on many that political Islam cannot claim a monopoly on good governance, if at all. In fact, the opposite is true if we look at countries like Tunisia.

Then of course, Covid-19 struck and like many countries, we in the UAE see that there are problems that need multilateral co-operation and friendship but also a tight grasp of the boundaries of the state. We could not be asked to solve the problem of Covid-19 in the region but we did excel at solving it within our borders. Though we believe strongly in multilateral institutions and their importance in our global system, we also recognise that our internal systems were tested to the limit and that our economic livelihood was threatened.

This caused a sea of change in thinking about our foreign policy. The government swiftly moved to acquire the resources necessary to manage the Covid-19 crisis, whether through vaccine agreements, knowledge transfer or protective clothing. This required high levels of co-operation internally between different public and private sector units but it also required the ability to call on friends and allies.

Fortunately, we were successful; we began to see that our internal needs were complex and would require greater government involvement than before. In fact, I believe that we realise more clearly that our economy is large, complicated, resourceful and right for further development. Scientific and technological preparedness has become one of the key drivers of our foreign outreach. The issues of climate change and the move to cleaner forms of energy have pushed us

to reformulate what we expect of our diplomats and embassies. Then, what happened is a series of cabinet reshuffles that demonstrated the importance of a new set of portfolios which hadn’t really received very high priority or publicity in previous administrations and those are: food security and climate change, digital economy, support for small and medium-sized enterprises and foreign trade. Each of these portfolios has a minister of state who is very well connected to senior leadership. We’re in the process of reframing our self-perception in line with what we perceive to be the next set of challenges we will face to raise the UAE to its full potential. We are liberalising our visa regime and our commercial regulations to bring in foreign investors as well as to provide a platform for the best talent in the world to come and participate in our offering.

How does this translate into work for our diplomats? Well, we moved to presenting a fuller picture of the UAE beyond geopolitics, oil and the fight against extremism, which were the traditional kind of topics that we were associated with.  We now have a focus on attracting foreign direct investment. Our diplomats are out there every day spreading the word about the possibilities that the UAE offers in terms of being a country with superb physical financial and legal infrastructure. Diplomats can expect to be evaluated on the basis of their economic contribution to the country instead of focusing on geopolitics. We have redirected their attention to public speaking and interaction with key audiences in countries where they are based in. In fact, as diplomats, we have begun to work closely with ministries that need to work with foreign scientific and technological partners. We are energising our network of embassies and diplomats to reach out to trade and industry associations across the globe to serve the ministries of industry and advanced technologies, food security and climate change, among others.  This is in reference to what the minister said — we embrace the urgent need to prepare for a post-oil economy and the need to develop a strong and competitive knowledge economy which will best serve the future interests of the country and in particular, Emirati youth.

The UAE’s new foreign policy signals to the country’s enemies — those that embrace extremist ideologies and support them — that the UAE, as a sovereign state, is scripting a new national narrative on its own terms at home. National strategies have been put into place to amplify the UAE’s science and technology capacities for the purposes of diversifying and growing the UAE economy, promoting foreign direct investment, enhancing STEM education and improving national security.  For example, we’ve got the national food security strategy; the Emirates’ water security strategy; advanced sciences agenda; climate change plan and I think you may have heard that we’ve committed to a net-zero economy by 2050. We have a strategy for higher education, advanced innovation and science and technology advancement as a priority pillar of the UAE.

Foreign policy is going to contribute to improving the UAE’s partnerships in international co-operation across sectors such as space exploration, healthcare innovation and the climate crisis. Collaboration establishes and expands relationships – something that has been a key strategic objective to the UAE foreign policy since the beginning of this crisis. The UAE government has dedicated bureaucratic and financial resources towards a future-facing agenda that bolsters the sciences, technology, industrialisation, digital sphere, climate change and food security. Additionally, we’re focused on fixing previously strained relations with countries in the wider region by agreeing on common issues and mutual interests, enhancing co-operation in these fields and holding dialogues on contested issues. I think the most powerful example of our change in foreign policy was the signing of the peace treaty with Israel. It signalled a number of key points that I believe those need to be absorbed by more status quo entities and groups in the region:  one, we are a sovereign nation and we have full agency — we decide what is in our interests and will act on that; secondly, we believe in communication, not stonewalling; refusing to speak to those we disagree with has led to sub-optimal outcomes for ourselves and for much of the Arab world — we encourage others in the region to observe our example; thirdly, we are able to segregate files in our dealings with other countries — yes we disagree on the Palestinian issue but we can also work together in the economic and technological fields. In fact, working together allows us to understand each other better and opens the door to more fruitful discussions around areas of disagreement; fourthly, we are pragmatic and our primary duty is internal to the UAE; we will work with anyone if it helps us consolidate our progress as a nation socially, culturally, economically and politically.

The UAE has been signalling to the region and the world, that there’s a change in direction and the country’s foreign policy positioning has been afoot for some time. For example, when we hosted Pope Francis in Abu Dhabi — this was a remarkable move which sent a signal that we stood very firmly with openness, tolerance and acceptance of other faiths; when we executed a successful Mars mission organised and managed by a very young set of Emirati scientists; and when we opened the  Expo 2020 Dubai which I’m currently taking part in and I encourage you all to attend. Clearly, robust international co-operation and co-ordination are required to successfully enact the goals of the UAE’s foreign policy and we are actively expanding our partnerships across relevant sectors and pursuing initiatives to continue to improve our standing in the global community.

In conclusion, I hope that I’ve managed to clarify how we’ve moved over the course of the last decade or so, from a focus on the fight against extremism and the related geopolitical concerns to a foreign policy that is oriented towards deeper multilateral engagement as well as aligning our resources with a national agenda of economic growth, increased economic complexity and resilience. I look forward to your questions and many thanks for having given me this opportunity.

After His Excellency Omar Saif Ghobash’s speech ended, Mr Kausikan opened the floor to questions from the audience.

[Mr Kausikan]: Thank you very much. I will now hand you over to Michelle Teo, the Executive Director of MEI (NUS) to moderate your question-and-answer session. Thank you very much.

[Ms Teo]: Thank you, Your Excellency. That was a very interesting speech. As a former diplomat and coming from a small state, I think we completely understand a great deal of what you had commented on and I also think one thing that people don’t realise is that many of the plans that you have talked about — they take a long time to formulate, to seed and take root. You know, we’ve come to where we are because it has been a long-term plan and that’s something that’s very interesting.

I wanted to ask you something quickly before we start to take in some of the questions. You talked about science and technology — this is something that in Singapore, is research and development and becoming a hub in specific sectors which is very important for us as well — and you’ve talked about science and technology many times, alongside talking about the Abraham Accords. Now, you know that Israel, in terms of technology and sciences, is far ahead of the game and they’re also a small state; I mean, there are similarities. How do you see the Abraham Accords as creating a way for the UAE to also further its own ambition in terms of developing itself in the arena of science and technology? Especially since you have to have it homegrown for it to really take off and can’t just import it.

[HE Ghobash]: That’s a very important question and it’s something that is actually being debated on. I’ve debated it with some of the ministers who are operating in the field of science and for example, the space programme — we know that we can’t build this overnight and that it is a long-term strategy. Is it possible to seed an industry here? That might be a possibility. One minister told me that in fact, after surveying some companies in Dubai, even before we’d announced any kind of space programme, they discovered that there were 50 companies already operating in the field of space, using the infrastructure of the Emirates but with a global audience.  I think that’s one of the things that we’re finding out about our own system – we may not necessarily know exactly what’s going on in our own system and it’s by reaching out to all of the foreign investors here that we begin to discover these hidden gems.  The fact that we have a little ecosystem of 50 companies already in the field somewhat gives us hope that we can bring more in. We listen to them, get their ideas and then we link these niche areas with, for example, the banking system or the financial sector — different legal groups — and then we link them up again with our diplomats and ambassadors going to different countries to encourage this sort of intellectual engagement.

Some of the other things that we have been doing is setting up universities and developing centers of excellence. For example, we have a university in Abu Dhabi which is focused on postgraduate degrees in artificial intelligence and we imported a huge number of artificial intelligence researchers, hoping to grow more excellence in the field. Education is the starting point and it’s a hugely contentious issue not just in our country but in many countries around the world — how do you go about educating your young? What I can say is that we’ve got a number of different experiments. We have the federal government which operates public schools as well as a very active private sector that manages schools.  In fact, I think two of the largest global private sector players  in the education industry are based in the Emirates; they were seeded here,  grew here and now they export their model of education to different places around the world. You can’t do it overnight, that’s true and in fact, a lot of the ideas that we’re talking about today, we actually feel that we’re making progress with subjects that had been discussed in the late 1990s and early 2000s.  It’s a question of ‘how’ and I’ve discovered that it’s actually quite difficult to change the dynamics of the government, the direction of the state and watch bureaucracies fight for their old-style approach — some of the most successful young bureaucrats or civil servants that we have are very tough, rough and aggressive about changing the culture.

So I agree with you that it doesn’t happen overnight but it is happening and for us in the Arab world in particular, to be able to participate in this experiment we’re doing in the Emirates, is really a great honour.

[Ms Teo]: Thank you. Actually, it was interesting that you talked about education because there’s a lot of discussion about it here in Singapore as well and I think it also gives me a good starting point.

A lot of questions are coming in and I’m going to have to move a little bit from foreign policy because there are many questions looking at religion. I think your book has ignited a lot of interest in this debate we’ve got a lot of young people online today asking questions and that’s great.  Let me just ask you this — from your experience with young Muslims from around the world, do you feel that they are alike and that your book would resonate with Muslims from all parts of the world? What aspects of non-Arab young Muslims do you think your book could not address and why?

[HE Ghobash]: One of the criticisms that I’ve gotten was that I did not quote a single verse from the Quran but that was done on purpose. Very often, when somebody wants to present a particular angle on how our religion operates and what true Islam is, they will carefully select two or three – or maybe even more – verses that support their narrative. My position in the book was to say that they actually should not take narratives from people like me but instead, take a step back and learn how to read [it] in the first place. Understand that when it comes to a text as important as the Quran, you are coming with a set of assumptions. and values that have already been instilled in you either by a violent society or one that is particularly open and cosmopolitan.

That’s where the awareness needs to be – what is it that you are bringing along that emphasises either verses that that call for violence or verses that call for peace. I was always fascinated about how within Islam, you could have people who claimed that the Quran is a text for absolute violence and incredible vindictiveness, all in the name of God but at the same time, you could have very spiritual orientations coming out of the same text.  This is why I always tell  people or kids  to be aware of who you are before you try to interpret anything and that’s where the real work needs to take place because we have choices in how we look at them.

Do we look at the world as something that needs to be dominated or do we look at it from the point of view of needing to co-operate and therefore want to co-operate? Do I want to be the king of my house and beat my children or do I want to be a father who is full of love? These are all choices that we make even before we come to the topic of religion. I actually think a lot of kids responded positively to that because in the technological era we’re in where there’s so much self-discovery online, we’re provoked with so many stimuli that we begin to think more about what we like and what we don’t —much more than when I was a child. When you’re faced with your own identity or rather, a very complex identity, you find very simplistic interpretations of religion that cause conflict and I think that doesn’t apply only to Muslims but for Jews, Christians and those from many other faiths too –  I’ve joked that I might actually change a few words and republish my book as Letters to a Young Christian or Letters to a Young Jew.

[Ms Teo]: I thought your book was interesting  because I felt that many of the ideas and the thoughts that you had — precisely what you’ve talked about — it is not just for Muslims; I think it is meant for anyone who has faith in a particular religion.

There’s quite an interesting question now on foreign policy and I want to go back to that. It was intriguing to hear you talk about how the UAE’s foreign policy is first and foremost aimed at bettering the lives of its people in the social spheres as well as others. I think one thing a lot of people don’t realise is that foreign policy is actually driven by a domestic agenda so I found what you said sensible but I think other people find this quite intriguing so here is the question – can you talk a little bit about how the Abraham Accords can do this?  This is related to another question asking what challenges did the UAE government face in communicating about the Abraham Accords [to the public]? How did they overcome both the religious and social sentiments? What was the cost of this pragmatic approach, if any? I’m sure it was controversial, domestically.

[HE Ghobash]: There are quite a number of questions there. The idea of foreign policy being driven by domestic concerns — that applies even when you look at certain countries whose foreign policy is aggressive and seems to be built to distract their home population from the worries of the day-to-day life. It’s like the concept of “the country is making great sacrifices and therefore you must tighten your belt and make sure that you don’t complain too much” so that’s domestic concerns translating into foreign policy, as a distraction. Our foreign policyback  in the 1980s and 1990s was actually a very quiet one. It wasn’t that we didn’t have any concerns but we were still in the phase of building the country, understanding how the federal system works and were being tested in different ways – coming together and kind of getting past those. It was in the late 1990s and early 2000s that we began to feel that the Emirates has a certain amount of standing and reputation in the world – we had an economic model which essentially was based on distribution of wealth as much as possible, either through government spending or government grants but also making sure that you try to live up to the highest standards anywhere and that attracts foreign direct investment. Now you’re going to have to remind me of the other questions.

[Ms Teo]: What were the challenges that you faced domestically, with regard to the Abraham Accords?

[HE Ghobash]: There were a few voices that were questioning what was going on – quite a bit in many cases. There was pride that we were able to take a stand and say that this is being done in our interest – pride in the fact that this is an assertion of sovereignty which hasn’t been a traditional idea in our part of the world. I think this act of sovereignty where you’re going against what looks like a taboo — actually, on the ground, there’s a tremendous amount of enthusiasm for the relationship. It has kind of taken the “venom” out of what I call a traditional type of anti-Semitism, the quiet one that takes place behind closed doors so there’s really no space for that anymore.  Just walking around the Expo 2020 Dubai, it’s remarkable to see how many clearly orthodox Jews are walking around and feeling entirely free and safe.  In a sense, it somewhat reaffirms our own model to ourselves – we always thought of ourselves as tolerant but the true litmus test of tolerance in the Arab and Islamic world is how we deal with the Jewish community.

So that’s number one and of course, having ties with the Israelis is a little more complex — it isn’t just a question of anti-Semitism; it’s a question of the Palestinian issue and all of the wars that the Arabs have had with the Israelis. All I can say is that with all due respect to the Palestinians, if you objectively look at the number of Arabs killed by Arabs versus Arabs killed by Israelis, you know the Arab world has done a lot of damage so that somewhat puts things into context – that we are actually much more brutal with each other than outsiders are to us. I think that’s kind of a realisation – we need to think about how we treat each other before worrying about how others treat us.

We also felt very strongly that our national interest requires us to be connected to major global hubs and whether you like it or not, Israel is a major connector with some of the world’s powers – the Jewish community does have a voice in many different places; they’re very active and have an immense technological excellence that we believe is important for us. So again, without saying anything negative about the Palestinians or the country, we think that we will be able to better serve the Palestinian cause by having direct relations with the Israelites so that is a very practical approach.

[Ms Teo]: I’ve got a question that asks: The Expo is considered the Olympics of culture and economics — what are the benefits that the UAE will gain in being the first country in the Middle East and North Africa region to host the World Expo?

[HE Ghobash]: Firstly, it’s a point of pride that we won the contest for the Expo against major countries and powers.  In terms of organisation and lobbying diplomatically and politically, we believe that we’ve demonstrated a certain amount of excellence that should and could be emulated by other Arab countries – in different spheres also. Our deep concern is the rest of the Arab world –Arabs want to move ahead and yet, there are so many different ways in which we try to move ahead but they don’t quite work. The Emirates is an example of a country that is moving ahead from within the region with all types of problems – climate issues as well as the religious and tribal issues that many other Arab countries face.  Yet, we managed to organise ourselves – in spite of what could have been a traditional conflicted society – in a way that can attract a major event like the Expo.

Now, the Expo itself — we’ve been very generous by funding a number of different countries. Many smaller countries were unable to afford their own pavilions so we have actually funded their pavilions for them and in one case, we’ve even had to fund the pavilion of a major superpower — in fact, the only superpower — so we’ve done this and I can tell you (I’m involved in the Expo on a daily basis) it’s  such a pleasure to be able to tell the story of the Emirates. Well, we’re coming up to our 50th anniversary — to think that in the late 50s, early 60s, our leadership was in the desert as there were no roads, hospitals, money and no foreseeable prosperity. Then when leadership took control of the situation and united all the Arab emirates, we’ve managed to reach this stage of prosperity but to be honest, it’s a bit of a mystery how that happened.

It’s very important what happens to the Expo after it’s all over — apart from showcasing the country and being able to demonstrate how much fun it is to be in the Emirates, we’re also looking to develop the Expo area into a tech space itself so we’re looking forward to that. Again, it kind of signals the new direction our foreign policy is taking and the focus being on developing our internal economy.

[Ms Teo]: Thank you. So I’ve got a question that is related to what you’ve just talked about — you mentioned in your last answer that the Arabs want to move ahead but recent events such as the furore surrounding Saudi Arabia’s takeover of Newcastle United seems to work against this. Why does this negativity over the Middle East persist?

[HE Ghobash]: That’s a good question.  I think the supporters of Newcastle United are fine with it and they’re quite excited because they think that it’ll be kind of a repeat of Manchester City, large amounts of money going into building teams and winning games. There are always the naysayers and the critics — I think what’s happening is that we’re really trying to participate in a global community. We want to see ourselves as part of a global community but this means taking criticism, as well. It’s not that we want to be sitting out in the desert completely immune to all of this but taking criticism, listening to people’s concerns and doing something such as this – buying a football club – is very close and personal to people because the sport is such so it’s reasonable to think that it might be a contentious issue. I think it’ll be good for UK football but Arab countries wanting to move ahead — I mean, the Arab Spring was part of that and so was the rise of political Islam. The idea that our problems can actually be organised by religious scholars and theologians whereas in fact, a lot of what we need is some basic objectivity, honesty, some pragmatic straightforward approaches that are not too complexity and with an attitude of getting things done. I think in the Emirates, at least, we focus very much on the government being of service to the population – both Emiratis and residents – rather than being an obstacle. So the only power that anybody within a bureaucracy has is the power to serve, not the power to obstruct. Well, it’s a cultural approach that has been essentially beaten into people over the course of the last 50 years — leadership wants to get things done and that means there’s no time for corruption or laziness.

[Ms Teo]: Thank you for that. Let me ask this question which has come from one of our board members, Mr Fazlur Rahman and he actually asks about the UAE’s Golden Jubilee and hosting of the Expo 2020 in Dubai. As you know, we – Singapore and the UAE – enjoy a very good relationship and our minister was there recently to meet with UAE leaders. There’s also very close people-to-people relations and one of the things that Mr Rahman has noted is that in the four pillars marking your Golden Jubilee, you have talked about inspiring youth to have their vision about the next 50 years. What Mr Rahman has asked is — do you see some opportunities for youth in the UAE and Singapore to collaborate – such as exchange programmes to promote common ideals including mutual respect and inclusivity within our respective societies and as global citizens also?

[HE Ghobash]: Absolutely and I think going back 30 years, I know that Singapore has always been very much a model for the Emirates so we’ve learned, studied and visited a lot of times, trying to emulate Singapore in many ways so thank you Singapore! When it comes to youth, I think it’s absolutely vital that we take advantage of the possibilities – we have a Minister for Youth whom I believe is probably 26 years old and we have established a Federal Youth Authority. There’s tremendous amounts of support for young people to join government boards, business boards and to participate in building the country. I’ve reached an age now where wherever I walk, everybody is younger than me so I think of youth as being everywhere and it’d be great if we could work on a programme after this to connect young people either digitally or in-person. There’s a lot of interest in doing that – the Ministry of Youth has developed all these mechanisms to allow young people to make their views known in an organised manner and then convey those to leadership so that there’s a great deal of interaction between both parties.

[Ms Teo]: Okay thank you. Right, I’m going to sort of change track a little bit — we have a question asking:  How do you evaluate the role of documents such as the Marrakesh Declaration of 2014 and the Charter of Makkah 2019; both of which are on the grounds of diversity and tolerance in Islamic sources in reforming Islam and the perception of Islam across the Middle East and North Africa?

[HE Ghobash]: The documents are valuable but I think for me, personal examples have a much more powerful effect — how many of us actually reads those documents? With all due respect, it’s important that senior theologians come together and can at least provide theological arguments but actually, it’s the personal example of leadership, particularly in the Emirates — how do they treat people, what signals do they give? That’s where for me, personally, the real inspiration comes from because these are strong successful men and women who have done great things and at the same time, are open. It’s not that one loses his identity in being open and tolerant. In fact, it kind of reinforces the identity so yes, documentation is important but it’s actually very important to begin to see people interacting in real life and model that interaction.

[Ms Teo]: There’s a question now from an ex-board member of ours — Mr Kuah Boon Wee. His question is this — the UAE seems to be powering on and leaving most of its neighbours behind; is the GCC cooperation still relevant or will competition among each state intensify and there will be less desire to think of an Arab solidarity?

[ HE Ghobash]:  I think there’s even more reason to think of Arab solidarity, actually – if we  begin to focus on our own special strengths. If you take Saudi Arabia for example, it’s got a large local  population, has tremendous financial resources and a  huge territory so to be honest,  it’s really up to the country to maximise what it can do with these. Does it mean that that there will be moments of competition between the Emirates and Saudi Arabia? Of course but then there’s moments of competition between Dubai’s financial center and the one in Qatar as well. For example, if you look at the whole cryptocurrency space, Bahrain is far advanced in terms of regulation, registering companies and building up an ecosystem.  I think what happens is: as we become more complex in ourselves, we’re able to interact with more pride and self-confidence with other members of the Arab world. At the end of the day, no matter how much we may progress in comparison with other Arab states, we still share the same ethnicity, language and religion, to a large extent and that’s always going to have an effect on us. What we’re trying to do is demonstrate what is possible within these imaginary constraints of being Arab, Muslim and living in the desert essentially — these are constraints if we allow them to be so; they’re not necessarily that if we can think beyond.  I think the best thing that we can do, as the Emirates, is to demonstrate possibility in a part of the world where this fatalism has always been quite powerful.

[Ms Teo]: As the UAE approaches its Golden Jubilee, how do you see the country’s foreign policy to be in the next 50 years?

[HE Ghobash]: Well, it’s going to be very difficult but we can hardly predict what happens on a year-to-year basis so I will humbly say that in 50 years, I hope I’m promoted and  still around.

[Ms Teo]: I think one of the things I would say about foreign policy and asking someone how do you see in the next 50 years.. if you ask us, in Singapore, we’ll tell you that we need to think about what’s going to happen in the next year or six months exactly and how are we going to respond to that. In many ways, it’s reactionary; the fundamentals are set up but you don’t have to respond to your immediate environment, that’s really how foreign policy evolves.

[HE Ghobash]: Well, there is one thing I can say which is that within the Emirates, we have moved from being very aware of who is a citizen and who isn’t and in a way, all of our attention was focused on citizens. Over the last few years there’s been a very clear political decision to blur the lines and to speak of Emiratis and residents as a community of the Emirates and once that’s done, your foreign policy has to change the way in which you serve the community of the Emirates. It means that you need to focus on things that are outside of the traditional taboos and ideologies that may have driven us as a purely Arab Muslim society. I think that might be one of the interesting ways in which our foreign policy will evolve but I can’t say where it will evolve to. At the end of the day, you have to take a pragmatic approach.

[Ms Teo]: I’ve got a question now from Dr Yaacob Ibrahim who used to be  Singapore’s minister-in-charge of Muslim affairs and I would like to welcome him as well, to today’s talk. What he has asked is — against the changes that you spoke about that are happening in the Middle East, could you share your insights on the thoughts and orientation of the religious class within the Middle East? Are there underlying tensions between this class and the ruling class?

[HE Ghobash]: I don’t think there are underlying tensions but that’s an interesting question though. I think within the ruling class, you have people who are deeply religious and those who are more flexible. People differ in their focus — how would I put itis that I think things are moving so fast both regionally and globally so it’s very difficult to kind of pin things down.

[Ms Teo]: To Dr Ibrahim, when His Excellency comes back to us with an answer I’ll make sure it comes to you. Some of these questions do require a bit of time to think because they’re not so easily answered in the context of the talk, my apologies.

Okay we’ve got a question now from Mr Rahman who’s the editor of Berita Harian and the president of MUIS — What is His Excellency’s perspective on economic Islam in areas such as halal finance etc.? Do you see these as growing prospects and not causing divisiveness?

[HE Ghobash]: I think it’s funny because in the region, we’ve traditionally had a Western banking system and I remember that in the late 1990s, there was greater interest in developing Islamic financial products or products that are kind of Islamically compliant. Rather than causing a division —which means saying we’re not going to allow that; we’re just going to have a normal banking system — members of the government did see it as a new economic opportunity and that is the reality, it is a new economic opportunity and it does serve a specific function.  We see it as a growth industry and I do believe that the halal market – certification, regulation and sharia-compliant financial products –– is just another way in which you can package resources and unleash economic progress. That’s definitely the case but I will say that what I do find very strange is that given that there are over 50 Muslim countries, why is it that London is the epicentre of Islamic finance? It just seems a bit unfair so what have we been doing?

[Ms Teo]: Well, yes I think that’s a question that that has to be asked. Okay I’ve got another question now –Minister, you talked about how the UAE’s approach to external relations has begun to relate to public audiences elsewhere, certainly a key aspect of public diplomacy. The UAE first convened its Soft Power Council in 2017 and over the years, has conceived flagship themes for each year ranging from tolerance to innovation. What is the long-term plan for the next 50 years — this year’s theme — and how does it build on the country’s projection of soft power?

[HE Ghobash]: It’s a very good question which I ask myself. I’m not sure what the programme is going to be for the 50th anniversary but I am going to be very happy to support it with all of my energy and resources. The question of soft power is an interesting one –is it something you can actually control, manage and build or is it just an expression of many different diverse activities taking place in your country. I tend to think of the Emirates’ growth at this stage, at least, that soft power is not something that we can control or direct in any particular way but instead, it is a function of how we operate in the country. If you look at our airlines, Emirates Airlines, it started off with one plane trying to connect Dubai to anywhere in the world and once that was accomplished, it then developed into a massive operation connecting hundreds of cities to Dubai and that led to a certain amount of soft power. I don’t think anybody thought that was going to happen in the first place but in promoting Dubai as a place to transit through or come and visit, the airline has been a massive source of soft power. Again, soft power for me at least, it’s something that we can identify after it’s happened and been established rather than planning it in advance and having a plan to “build” soft power. That’s why I think soft power is actually much more authentic than what a Western consultant might provide us with. I would love to hear your opinion of that.

[Ms Teo]: If we’re talking about soft power, I would basically say that we have an iconic airline as well — Singapore Airlinesand Singaporeans are very proud of it because it’s our national carrier and it projects very far ahead. When people hear of Singapore, they tell you Singapore Airlines is one of the best airlines in the world and as a Singaporean, you always feel a certain sense of pride about that. So, was that very deliberate at the start? It was about our identity and making our mark in the early days but I think it has also helped to develop that sense of pride in who we are and what makes us Singaporean.  When you look at identifiable markers, Singapore Airlines is one of them so I can understand what it’s like for those in the UAE – if your airlines does very well, it sort of is a mark of your identity as well.

Now I’ve got a question from our Non-resident Ambassador to Kuwait, His Excellency Zainul Abidin Rasheed who was a minister of state, previously. The question he has is on foreign policy and geopolitics — how does the UAE see the new geopolitical dynamics, in particular the tussle between the US and China? And secondary to that, how does Iran feature?

[ HE Ghobash]: I have a humorous response to that – it came up a few days ago in a discussion I had. Well, the United States and the last three administrations have been talking about a turn to Asia and away from the Middle East and so my response was: well, perhaps they know something we don’t so we should also turn to Asia but it’s not so simple – in terms of national interest, what are the possibilities?  China is a massive trade partner for us and it’s not so straightforward to say we’re not going to deal with them. I mean, as it is, the sanctions imposed on Iran has caused a huge damage to our economy because we were the biggest trading partner of Iran through the ports of Abu Dhabi, Dubai and Sharjah, in spite of all of the public geopolitical problems that we have with them.  So we are very sensitive to the cold war between the United States and China and we do try to balance things out. Objectively, we are so much more deeply involved with the United States than any other country and it’s difficult to see that changing in the next few decades. In terms of financial systems, investments and computer systems — everything is so intimately entwined with the United States but I think if our American friends have any worries, they really shouldn’t — culturally, we also know where we lean. There are very few Emiratis who speak Mandarin but there are many Emiratis who speak American English.

[Ms Teo]: Okay, thank you. There are a lot of questions coming in thick and fast and one of them is from Mr Anthony Teo, a founding member of our board who has been with the institute since its outset.  He has asked:  With getting 33 young Emiratis into high government, how do your mathematics and politics calculations deal with the Machiavelli dictum that “fortune is always woman-like; a lover of young men because they are less cautious, more violent and with more audacity, command her.”  He cites examples from the Meiji Revolution in Japan,  young colonels in Egypt and Gaddafi in Libya.

[HE Ghobash]: We’re very lucky we have no colonels so nothing to worry.

[Ms Teo]: Okay let me ask you this other question now. The UAE will serve as a non-permanent member of the Security Council for the period 2022 to 2023. What are the UAE’s priorities for its tenure on the Security Council?

[HE Ghobash]: What we’re going to do is — well firstly, our ambassador to the United Nations is a woman and she has been groomed for this position for the last six to seven years or maybe even longer and there’s a specific reason for that. It’s because we do want to project an image. She’s incredibly talented and hardworking and we want to project an image of leadership from the Arab world, at a global level.  Plus she’s female so that in itself is very important to us. Secondly, we want to focus on the concerns of small states. For example, I have a lot of dealings through the foreign ministry with Central America and the Caribbean and it’s very important that we convey to them that we are their voice –  being the voice of small states that are not necessarily heard but  have specific sets of issues that don’t necessarily get to the big table. So, we’re going to be there for them. I also think we’re going to be very much focused on women’s issues and the promotion of their rights around the world. Those are sort of the basic set of approaches that we’re going to take.

[Ms Teo]: I think the  idea of speaking up for the small states is something that is probably needed – I think that was something that we [Singapore] did too when we were a non-permanent member on the Security Council. Having non-permanent seats allows the smaller states to have a position and a voice to speak for others as well. Thank you.

Another question — the UAE is one of the main importers of branch campuses of foreign universities. Would you say these campuses contribute to the UAE’s foreign policy? For example, by building global connections between scholars?

[HE Ghobash]:  I was intimately involved with the establishment of New York University’s branch campus in Abu Dhabi. I felt there was an issue that we faced as Emiratis – we would grow up in an Emirati system, fly to Western Europe, US or UK to study and fill our minds with all kinds of exotic ideas and then come back home to be faced with the system that we left. It’s a system that didn’t understand what we were talking about and isn’t used to policy discussions and/or broad philosophical questions. So it occurred to me that one of the ways in which we can create more value is by establishing an outpost of that kind of education at home, essentially, in a purely physical manner. You leave home, start university, your mind is provoked by all these ideas and then when you go back home, you sit with your family who have no connection to all of these ideas. In a way, this is kind of an “intellectual irritant”. At the same time, creating a set of questions that are based on our local community — I think that is what has happened actually; there are a lot of Emirati students now at New York University who have graduated and are serving in the government and private sectors. It’s led to a change in the way we discuss math – there’s more connection between those traditional bureaucracies and cutting-edge education. So I think that’s really important but the other important angle was the idea of students from surrounding countries — India, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Oman — coming to the university and in that sense, you would create sets of people who knew each other and would go back and serve in their own governments or private sectors.

Well, these are the few ideas that were in the back of my head as well as the leaders who made the decision. The branch campuses — they’re important as a lot of people say that this is a form of Western intellectual imperialism and yet, the only real things that we pick up from that is asking questions – why, what, how, where etc. The discipline of asking questions is very powerful and currently, in the Arab education system, we haven’t quite mastered that and that’s why there’s a demand for foreign universities.

[Ms Teo]: It is important to be able to ask questions and learn to ask the right questions, as that helps you grow intellectually as well. There’s a question asking: Can minister comment on the GCC’s perspective and treatment of the new Afghan state; the role in the plight of women and the dilemma of education of girls in their country?

[HE Ghobash]: Well, we haven’t recognised the Taliban government and actually, it’s very interesting because there is an Afghanistan pavilion at the Expo 2020 Dubai but it’s run by Afghans who are based in the Emirates. They have a presence but it doesn’t necessarily represent the Taliban or the state. The whole exit from Afghanistan was quite remarkable and obviously, it sets up a lot of questions as to what was the purpose and what is the global community going to really do, going forward. I don’t think we can take the lead on women’s issues in Afghanistan, their education or other matters there.  We know very clearly where the Islamic standards on education and rights for women are and we have demonstrated that by promoting women as much as possible. A third of our Cabinet is female – half of our Federal National Council, our parliament, is female. There are laws stipulating that women must be included in the boards of directors of companies and government institutions and education is guaranteed for women as well. It’s very strange that within the Islamic world, we see males fearing females being educated – it doesn’t make sense and it doesn’t compute.  I’m not sure we know where to even start that kind of debate with the Afghan leadership so it’s a question of time.

[Ms Teo]: Yes, thank you. I’ve got time for just one last question. I want to circle back to the book that you wrote and we basically built on some of the things that Minister Shanmugam talked about using that. The question: Your book is of course addressed to your sons but hypothetically, if you had a daughter, would you focus on different topics and avoid some?

[HE Ghobash]: Well, it’s not hypothetical now because I have a pair of twin daughters who are three and a half years old. My book was released in 2017 so yes, I actually think my book to my daughters would have been firmer, more insistent on self-respect, dignity, autonomy and focusing on the freedom to think as broadly and clearly as possible about what their options are in life and what they want.  I feel very strongly about making sure that my daughters are allowed to blossom and live up to their potential. I think it’s a real tragedy that so many children don’t even begin to scrape their real potential and I hear that traditionally, Singapore has been very good at developing young people’s potential. We, in the Arab world, have a mixed approach – we really want to find the greatest geniuses in the world amongst our children but at the same time, we do everything possible to make sure that they don’t read a book. This is a contradiction because there is a desire but also fear of what comes out of the mouths of educated young people so it’s a story to be told.

[ Ms Teo]: Thank you for that. This has been a really wonderful session. Chairman, would you like to close up?

[Mr Kausikan]: Thank you. This has been one of our best S RNathan Lectures and I’m not saying it just out of politeness but I’m saying it sincerely. Thank you very much for joining us, sharing with us and giving us so much food for thought that I think we will all go back and ponder about what you have told us. Thank you again and I hope to be able to meet you in person soon.

[HE Ghobash]: Thank you to all of you too – Minister Shanmugam, Bilahari and Michelle. It really has been an honour and a pleasure to be able to talk to you.

[Ms Teo]: Thank you, Your Excellency. Thank you all very much for joining us; we’ve had a really enjoyable talk today and we look forward to seeing you at the next MEI (NUS) event. Thank you.